DSG judder

[Olivier]

Anyone on this forum who had the DSG judder and where the problem is actually solved and how?

[the_winner]

Hello very known problem for DSG7/DQ200 Dry Double Clutch gearbox, at the end of 2011 VW has produced a new revision of the clutch pack with better materials , but it is not 100% solution becuase the Drive Mode Software is stupid and if you dont stop completely it will start with D2 , this is the reason the the K2 Clutch wear and then you have judder
You can check this for better material : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 936&type=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[greg7728]

I had this at 14k miles - replaced clutch pack fixed it. If rumble is between gears 1 and 2. It's either clutch pack or mech unit, not cheap fixes . VW quality has a lot to answer for with a clutch pack going at 14k!


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[Olivier]

So updating software will 100% not fix it?

[greg7728]

VW updated my software tried to palm me off and few days later was at it again, it's clutch wear so cannot see software would help once the damage is done . There are a few threads on this subject, very common issue. Clutch pack and labour from VW was 1200 odd. U under warranty? What miles or service history? VW did some good will on mine as was 14k miles with full VW service history, still pissed me off as no clutch should go at such low miles - may be worth looking at that. But if not under warranty and have a few miles on the clock, may be best getting independent garage to change clutch pack as that is more than likely the issue and will be cheaper than VW 115 an hour labour costs to put right.


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[Olivier]

I now have 74.000 km on the clock and bought it with 1 year "Das Welt" warranty at the VW dealer in October '15. Only problem is that the judder doesn't appear all the time. Only a few times in the past 3 months. So very difficult/impossible to replicate at the dealer during a testdrive.

[Roy_01]

A dsg remap will solve this for 90% but not an option for you because of the warranty.
I changed the whole range from gear 3 till 6, upshift and downshift.
So not driving in high gears with to low rpm.
But sometimes when braking and downshifting automaticaly it will sometimes judder, especially the shifting from gear 3 --> 2.

[greg7728]

Mine didn't happen all the time, was more prominent pulling out of junctions after warmed up, I would have the clutch pack changed under the warranty


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[moulin12]

A dsg remap will solve this for 90%

Disagree. This is the most common issue on 1.4's, and which use the 7 sp dry box. The clutch plate is very likely knackered. My understanding that it is actually the 2013 replacement that is now used, though the longevity of the fix is unknown. Garages will fob you off with the DSG update, but in 90% of cases that won't fix the issue. Cost is around 1 -1.2K but by contacting VW direct you may, in fact should, be able to get some goodwill, especially if you arm yourself with the realms of research out there. On that, search my old threads.

[moulin12]

I now have 72.000 km on the clock and bought it with 1 year "Das Welt" warranty at the VW dealer in October '15. Only problem is that the judder doesn't appear all the time. Only a few times in the past 3 months. So very difficult/impossible to replicate at the dealer during a testdrive.

Find a side road with an incline. Approach the junction of the incline very slowly - around 5 -10 mph (no more), do a hard lock right or left as you move off. You will replicate. If you have the Das welt warranty you will get goodwill, IF you arm yourself with all of the info on the issue that's out there. If you want to chat in person about this, pm me.

[Roy_01]

Sorry didn't know the 1.4 has à 7 speed box. I was talking about the 6 speed dsg dq250.
But im not talking of à vw update but a custom dsg map i put on my own car. (2.0 TDI)
In the gears 3-6 it don't let the revs go lower then 1300 rpm by shifting down.
That saves a lot of annoying juddering.
Its also possible to enable:

- use of 1st gear (instead of take off in 2nd)
- disable kickdown
- change rev limiter
- change torque limiter
- shorter shifttimes

[blower]

I've had this with my DSG 7 speed, started not longer after i bought the car in 2013. It's a 2010 model and had 30k miles on it at the time.

The history of the car showed it already had the clutch pack replaced in 2012, with the harder version....this was at around 20k miles.
My clutch judder started at about 35k miles, so the 2nd clutch only lasted 15k miles before it juddered in 2nd when moving off.
I had my mechatronics replaced in 2013 due to a rough shift into 3rd. The judder started some months later.

I've since had the clutch pack replaced again, in April 2015. Have put about 6k miles on it and its working fine. I have read the problem is supposed to have been fixed with the later clutch packs - but time will tell.
Some people have indicated you need the mechatronics replaced along with the clutch pack to fully alleviate the issues - but this may have just been tied to mechatronics issues with the older synthetic mech oil, before the recall to change to mineral.

As above, to replicate the most common trigger is slowing down to a crawl, where by the gearbox kicks down to 2nd, wait until close to stopping to a crawl and then move off again....worse on an incline and/or with wheel lock.

However the problem is far far more prominent in hot weather - i.e. you will find it does it infrequently in the winter, but far more frequently in the summer esp on a very hot day.
The somewhat worn clutch plate slips far more when its hot - so a long drive, esp in stop start traffic, combined with hot weather will really make it start to slip and judder.

In terms of what causes it - a lot of stop start traffic where your crawling and moving off again will accelerate the wear.
The theory is that the constant slipping of the clutch in crawling like traffic, in particular in hot summer weather, causes the clutch to get to very high temps where by clutch material begins to melt and form hard deposits along with glazed areas....this then becomes somewhat permanent and it will slip when up to temperature due to reduced friction of the glazed surfaces.

The newer clutch plates are supposed to be harder, more resistant to overheating, and i have heard that newer boxes have more clutch bearing material to help dissipate the heat.
Long and short of it is heat is killing these clutches and you should avoid crawling in 2nd too much, esp in the summer. I tend to reduce clutch slip when in traffic by letting a bit of a gap build in front of me, pulsing a bit of power then shifting it to neutral so it coasts up to the next car....this avoids crawling and also clutch slip as the car slows down (the DSG box will sometimes slip the clutch a lot when it slows down to a crawl)

[the_winner]

Blower
I drive my car in manual which use more 1st gear at traffic jam and not the second gear like in D mode.

[moulin12]

Sorry didn't know the 1.4 has à 7 speed box. I was talking about the 6 speed dsg dq250.
But im not talking of à vw update but a custom dsg map i put on my own car. (2.0 TDI)
In the gears 3-6 it don't let the revs go lower then 1300 rpm by shifting down.
That saves a lot of annoying juddering.
Its also possible to enable:

- use of 1st gear (instead of take off in 2nd)
- disable kickdown
- change rev limiter
- change torque limiter
- shorter shifttimes

Ah, so there was also confusion on my part, since I didn't catch on that you were referring to a custom remap.

As mentioned in this thread, dealers will sometimes look to simply apply a dsg update to fix the 7 sp box issue and/or state failure to replicate, when they know that the issue will be with the clutch plate, and which Blower has fully described here. The 7 sp box is a 'dry' box, and a different beast to the 6 sp wet box.

The clutch plate was changed on mine fully under goodwill when just outside of main warranty but still under Das Welt warranty. I think that as the OP bought the car from an approved dealer, and the car is still under approved warranty, goodwill should be available. Given all the available evidence on the web over the dry sp clutch issue, then there's a good chance of getting full goodwill, if you argue hard enough.

[Olivier]

Many thanks for all the replies and advice. Car will go to the dealer today. Will let you know the outcome.

Unfortunately, temperature is below zero at the moment, so extra difficult to replicate the problem.

[Olivier]

Just received good news from my dealer. The clutch pack will be replaced soon under warranty. Happy camper!

[moulin12]

result!!

[mister_p]

Hi all

I also had my clutch pack replaced last week with the latest 0AM198140S revision. Would anyone happen to know anything about this revision ? Has the judder issues been resolved or will this revision only delay the issue a bit longer ? When I searched the net, I only came across a 'c' revison from 2013 but from what some people wrote, the judder was not resolved

Thanks