Focal Speaker and Amp Disaster

[James321]

Hey guys, looking for a bit of help here;

I dropped the car in this morning to YellowHat for a set of 4 Focal 165 K2's and a Focal amp to drive them, I received a call 8 hours later to say the work is complete but there is a problem with the car!

I drove down to the fitting workshop to find 5 guys busy with the dash in bits. The car will not power up at all- the Stereo powers up but that's all, no ignition, no lights, no central locking, nothing.

Battery voltage is 12.7V

I'm not sure what they have done to the car and 4 of the guys do not speak English so my attempts to get to the bottom of which fuses/relays/connectors they have disturbed was met with blank looks.
I've given in for tonight, will go back tomorrow but can anyone help with fuse positions etc. the manual doesn't cover which fuses go where.

I knew I should have done this job myself but trusted these guys as they have done many installs.

I'm of the attitude "you f**ked it! you fix it" even if it means them taking it to VW but I'm worried they will just keep badging until it works!!

[James321]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the infux of ideas on what you guys think this could be, thank you.

Anyway, they have now requested my spare key so I guess they are doing some sort of reprogramming?

I had a garbled message to say "a problem with both fuse boxes" on my phone. I'm guessing they shorted the amp cable to ground and did some damage along the way?

[Paralla]

First of all you should have taken it somewhere that was recommended to you rather than somewhere that has merely done a lot of installs. I know that's not helpful but there you go. Car stereo guys are sadly often cowboys.

It sounds like they might be powering the new amp directly from the battery or the fuse box in the engine bay at least. My guess is that they have shorted something out and blown a fuse somewhere. My first check would be to remove every fuse one by one and test it with an ohm meter to see if it is OK. You don't need a list of fuses to do this.

If all the fuses checked out OK I would try resetting the CAN BUS. To do this remove both battery terminals, wait a couple of minutes and then short the two battery leads together to discharge any voltage that may be still in the system due to capacitance. Only short the two leads together away from the battery terminals, you might get a small spark, that's fine. Reconnect both leads to the battery and with any luck everything should work.

I don't htink your spare key is going to help. If it was something to do with the immobiliser that wouldn't affect the lights.

[James321]

Thanks for the reply Paralla, unfortunately this is Dubai so there isn't a skilled workforce anywhere to be found, most if not all motor industries use cheap labour from Asia or India, non of this labour appears to be skilled, they use the method of throwing bodies at it to achieve a result.
So what do you do, you opt for the largest company which will at least have some support when it inevitably all goes wrong.
As for the car, I went over this with them, We checked all the fuses and all were ok. I suspect they have caused some damage when looking for an ACC power up for the amp, they denied touching the fuse box (which was a blatant lie as there are wires protruding from behind it.

The car has been taken to VW Dubai now and it was VW that requested the spare key so it must be getting reprogrammed.

I questioned the manager over his ability to carry out installs, he said they have done hundreds of VW, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, etc, and this is the first car they have had issues with.....hmmmmm!

I certainly won't be paying the full price for this install!

[Paralla]

I am glad to hear it sounds like it will be sorted by VW.

I hope you are happy with the K2's, they go loud by all accounts. Where did they install the Amp?

[dimexi]

Isn't 12.7v quite low for a battery reading?

[Cuprabob]

Isn't 12.7v quite low for a battery reading?

No, that's normal with.the engine off. It jumps to.around 14V once the car is started and the alternator does it's thing.

[James321]

Paralla,

The amps had to located on the back of a rear seat, I did want it under either of the front seats but there just wasn't enough room and they thought the back seat would be neater. I'm going to make an MDF box to cover it over and match the carpet on the rear seat backs to cover this, the amp does have a fan so the box will be vented. At least this will prevent damage when the rear seats go flat for loading.

12.7V is fine with on the battery, as Bob said, it will jump to 14 once the engine is running. It's not a big install so doesn't need a second battery, I was only really looking for more clarity in the sound where the standard VW paper cones struggle. The amp is required because these K2's need about 80w to drive them correctly.

I'm hoping after all this messing around and 4 days to fit 8 speakers and an amp, it actually sounds good!!

[dimexi]

Isn't 12.7v quite low for a battery reading?

No, that's normal with.the engine off. It jumps to.around 14V once the car is started and the alternator does it's thing.

Ah, thanks for that cuprabob... I thought it would stay at 14v... Why does it drop so low without the engine with no load on the battery?!

[Cuprabob]

Isn't 12.7v quite low for a battery reading?

No, that's normal with.the engine off. It jumps to.around 14V once the car is started and the alternator does it's thing.

Ah, thanks for that cuprabob... I thought it would stay at 14v... Why does it drop so low without the engine with no load on the battery?!

Because it's a 12V battery.

[James321]

The alternator provides the electricity for the car when the engine is running at 14v, the battery just acts as capacitor/damper to allow for spikes in demand such as turning on the fans or heated seats, etc, instead of this instant demand for more power causing the voltage at the alternator to drop, it's absorbed by the battery so nothing else is effected.

The battery however only has a certain amount of cells, each cell providing say for instance 4V so it would be a 3 cell battery each giving 4V so a 12V battery. That's all that is required to start the engine at which point the alternator takes over the providing of power.

[dimexi]

The alternator provides the electricity for the car when the engine is running at 14v, the battery just acts as capacitor/damper to allow for spikes in demand such as turning on the fans or heated seats, etc, instead of this instant demand for more power causing the voltage at the alternator to drop, it's absorbed by the battery so nothing else is effected.

The battery however only has a certain amount of cells, each cell providing say for instance 4V so it would be a 3 cell battery each giving 4V so a 12V battery. That's all that is required to start the engine at which point the alternator takes over the providing of power.

Thanks very much for that detailed answer James321. Pretty much aware of most of the points you raised as well, probably wasn't thinking that straight.
To be honest, I thought cars had moved away from the standard 12v battery (shows how long ago I've had a battery changed), this is why I thought they registered higher when the engine was on - but it makes sense in it just being there for extra demand, as the alternator does most of the work. So in effect, the battery either never carries excess charge OR it gets discharged as soon as the alternator stops.

Cuprabob - short and concise - you gonna give me a dunce cap next?

[James321]

Still don't have the car back, almost a week to fit a set of speakers and an amp!!

[mr gee]

my guess is they might have blown the engine ecu.
this could happen if they did a jumper to your battery with ignition on. (this was conveyed to me by VW when my car couldn't start. luckily it was done by recovery service so warranty was honored)

[chelspeed]

The battery however only has a certain amount of cells, each cell providing say for instance 4V so it would be a 3 cell battery each giving 4V so a 12V battery. That's all that is required to start the engine at which point the alternator takes over the providing of power.

You're completely right about the battery being made up of a number of cells. I think the word battery actually means a series of cells joined together. The electrical symbol for a battery is a series of wide lines next to narrow lines, a pair is a cell, join a set up and they're a battery.

But to add some more info for a 12v car battery there are 6 cells (so each giving a nominal 2V). That's why the old batteries that needed topping up with distilled water had 6 caps on the top, one per cell. Modern sealed for life batteries often still have six covered up mouldings on the top.

Sorry this doesn't help fix the car.

[James321]

Day 10, still no car

Is this a world record for time taken to fit 8 speakers and an amp?

[luisgguedes]

Or the engine ECU has been blown. Or the BCM.

[whiteDevil_170]

Day 10, still no car

Is this a world record for time taken to fit 8 speakers and an amp?

you sir have a alot more patience than me. I would be going mad at them

[James321]

Day 10, still no car

Is this a world record for time taken to fit 8 speakers and an amp?

you sir have a alot more patience than me. I would be going mad at them

Done that, no point in getting myself stressed about it, I'll let them do the stressing when they try to hand me a bill for the install and I throw it in the bin and drive away.

[Paralla]

Have they sorted this out yet? Interested to know what the problem was and are you happy with the Focal upgrade.