Dsg 7-speed lost of gears

[skyblues11]

Hi all,

something strange had happened tonight.

was driving along the M6's roadwork section just past the Fort centre, north of B'ham, using the cruise control with the DSG box in manual mode at 7th gear, doing 50mph.

When the section finished i switched the cruise control off, dropped down to 6th and accelerated to overtake. Then suddenly the MFD gear indicator was flashing on 6th.

I carried on anyway, but later realized i had lost 7th, then 5th and 3rd gear when i reached the streets. Was awkward going from 2nd to 4th. Under manual or auto, the result was the same.

When i reached home, i switched off the ignition and started the car again after a few minutes and took it for a test drive, thinking this would reset things, like a computer crash.

It worked. However, this is the most serious fault i ever had so far in 3 years of ownership.
Could you guy tell me what is the likely cause and if there is anything i should or should not do in future? Not surprisingly i am out of warranty....

thanks

[RW1]

Its not a usual fault.

VCDS read out would be useful & mileage (guess its 34k to 40k). Without the fault codes, its guesswork.

Given you've had the Scirocco a while I suspect the clutch pack was overloaded by what you did (age thing/wear). I will happen again I suspect with the miles the car has done. It probably that the Clutch Temperature Sensor kicked in due slippage.

First approach may be to do a "Basic Settings" on the DSG to re-educate the clutches.

If that doesn't stopped it occurring, it may mean a new clutch pack.

Thats the extreme. As written, need codes to understand what upset it.

C.

[the_winner]

Useful informationS RW1 .
How many km/miles is the life of the DSG7 Clutch Pack? I think VW state that DSG7 clutch packs last 150.000 km?
Why it has much earlier wear ?
When the gear flash in the MFD and the gearbox works only with some gears it doesnt need new mechatronic?

[skyblues11]

thanks RW1 and thats right, i have done some 31k from new.

As for the code, i never got around to buy a VCDS ( spent too much money on other silly things!) and the MFD did not give any message.

I could go to my local VAG specialist to get a readout in the short term. So far since the incident, there had not been any drama and the gearbox seems to behave as per normal.

i have read up something about the mechatronic software but does that not affect 6 speeds with wet clutches only?

anyway , no point guessing. Lets get a code. Oh speaking of codes, does it get logged in the system like a computer event manager? i.e. what happened and when?

[Ozmosis]

Am I wrong in thinking that the 'odd' numbered gears (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th) are on one clutch, and the 'even' (2nd, 4th, 6th) on the other? If this is the case, maybe it's a fault with one of the clutches?

[RW1]

anyway , no point guessing. Lets get a code. Oh speaking of codes, does it get logged in the system like a computer event manager? i.e. what happened and when?

Yes, mileage, voltages if it shows - important with 7 speed DSG and other snippets that help, are all stored beside the code(s).

It will look something similar to this for information provided. (Need all on your return, that is if there is a fault has registered)

1 Fault Found:
18202 - Selector Lever
P1794 - 000 - Incorrect Usage - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 5587 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2005.14.25
Time: 12:27:25

C.

[RW1]

Am I wrong in thinking that the 'odd' numbered gears (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th) are on one clutch, and the 'even' (2nd, 4th, 6th) on the other? If this is the case, maybe it's a fault with one of the clutches?

1,3,5,7..... 2,4,6 with Reverse Gear via an internediate gear off this gearshaft. Each set on a clutch of the dual clutch.

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... &mode=view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

C.

[Ozmosis]

Am I wrong in thinking that the 'odd' numbered gears (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th) are on one clutch, and the 'even' (2nd, 4th, 6th) on the other? If this is the case, maybe it's a fault with one of the clutches?

1,3,5,7..... 2,4,6 with Reverse Gear via an internediate gear off this gearshaft. Each set on a clutch of the dual clutch.

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... &mode=view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

C.

Cheers for that mate.

[skyblues11]

it happened again today. Again on motorway condition, again on manual mode.

have booked in with a local specialist for next saturday am but might go to a dealer instead.

i fear for the worst.

i used to look down on those extended warranty adverts on daytime TV, but it seems to make sense afterall.....

[skyblues11]

an update on my situation.

took it to my local dealer today and had a diagnostic test. I did not get given a 'readout' as such, but the mechanic did say it showed up "sporadic fault: gear no.1 and 3.''

without much else to work from they are just as baffled, and suggested an update ( if there is any) and a Basic reset as mentioned by RW1. Hopefully it would just be software related but no guarantee what will happen after.

Its a 3hr job and would cost 330 pounds. I tried to shop around but the independent guy said they have no access to any VW official updates.

Another VW dealer refuse to quote unless i book it in for another diagnostic test.

I guess i don't have much choice but to go ahead with the original dealer..

[skyblues11]

Hi all, i need some advice, having spent the best part of the weekend researching into DSG and still no wiser!

When i was booking the appointment last week, i mentioned the campaign code 37G7, but they said it does not apply to me. However on the Roccopedia Recall table,it clearly indicates that it does. So who is right?

Recall no. 37E8 - i know this applies to certain cars and DSG 6 speeds. But the problem described is very similar to what i am experiencing. Should i ask for this update too?

RW1 - when you say voltage, do you mean a spike? could that be caused by external devices like USB sticks/ MP3 players/ Mobile phones? I remember last year the phone refused to be re-charged via the 12v socket because it said the 'voltage was too high', but ok via USB.

Secondly, how long should a clutch pack last under normal driving habits ( like no track days, just urban commute with occasional etc)? I am out of warranty and decided to save up money for the inevitable. Surely 30k is too early for clutch slippage?

Is there any extended DSG only warranty given by VW in the UK? In the USA, Australia and China, the problem got so bad that VW eventually gave up fighting and slap a 10 year extension.

Should i take up the issue with VW in Milton Keynes? I should not fork out over 300 quid for a Basic setting procedure ( that may or may not include the aforementioned update) and a fault that is not my own making?

However, i can see them sticking 2 fingers at me, claiming oil-less dry clutch plates are consumables and are suppose to wear out in 30k miles ( otherwise how else can they rip people off in future??).

finally, should i just cut my losses and part exchange the car now? I think a Dacia hatch back cost about the same as a completely new DSG box.

[RW1]

37G7 is selective, even within the production ranges specified. Just the way I wrote the short description for guidance. I've updated the Roccopedia to avoid confusion. For instance mine is within the periods but is not affected.

37G7 is for long term parked storage where the DSG won't engage Drive and move the vehicle with the Mechatronic valves malfunctioning due the controller software. This a stationary after storage problem like 6 weeks shipping to China or other Far East delivery destinations. The trouble is, the www is full of trash about 37G7 as people take older cars with 7 spd DSG in for fault repair. In being updated to the latest controller software including 37G7, there are also other updates such as clatterery DSG in low gears on rough roads. The latter changes the DSG characteristics, ie. gear change points for 1, 2 & 3 and also quickens the gear changes. So these particular owners then experience a "changed" DSG shift/speed and associate it with 37G7..... crap.

For what you are experiencing, there is no new software fix or previous update.

The clutches haven't worn out and I never stated that above. What I stated was "a "Basic Settings" on the DSG to re-educate the clutches". The reason for replacement may have to be done is ones like yours sometimes have problems. The Clutch pack was changed in design from December 2011.

Sometimes the DSG7 can get its knickers in a twist and the dynamic clutch adjustments go too far to one extreme. The DSG is always adjusting what it does but the very small increments cannot pull back a setting based on a different driving style quickly. (Which is why it should be driven differently all the time. eg I normally potter around but tonight, it got given different, not thrashed but I didn't hang about.). Basic Settings is about correcting the DSG back to basics. From there it can adjust more easily for changes in driving technique. This sort of thing is not unique to the clutch, I have a VR6 which can do the same with the throttle body and only small adjusts can be made, leading to thousands of miles to bring the ECU in line. The only way out occassionally is to use Basic Settings to make the ECU's emmission settings fall back into the normal operating envelope.

The expected design clutch life is about 186,500 miles (300,000Km) (as is a 6 speed DSG). That doesn't come into it here, unless the clutch has developed a mechanical fault, eg. juddering, contaminants on the friction plates, etc..

The reason for Basic Settings was to give you the cheapest option of correction. It can be done with VCDS. That baselines the DSG.

10 year doesn't extend here. The DSG is European sourced.

If you have a full service history, you won't know unless you discuss your problem. Its only a phone call.

Voltage: No, not a spike. The 7 speed DSG is not as happy if the battery is down on charge. I experienced that a while ago and VW know that as well about voltage levels/charge. Hence why I mention it. Ideally your battery after 3 hour from stopping the engine should be equal or above 12.4 volts (75%). Measure it by popping the bonnet but leave down, let the car settle three hours and then lift the bonnet and measure. Do not operate the doors, alarm or boot as that causes false voltage drops and you will have to start again.

Higher battery charged state ensures the 12 volts supply is reasonably smoothed. Below that "oddities" can happen, eg. I have once had Hill-Hold followed by a funny D1 - D2 - D3 with partial clutch engagement and skip gear effect. When the battery was measured very soon afterwards, it was at 12.0 volts (25% charged). Never let the charge get that bad again and cannot reproduce the experience.

If you were charging the phone while driving, then be aware, the charging voltage is typically 14.4 volts immediately after starting the engine and can be as high as 14.6 volts when a battery is already low on charge before starting the engine. It backs off typically around 15 minutes into the journey to 14.2/14.3 volts until the battery is charged and then goes lower to around 13.8 volts. The phone etc won't be causing spikes.

Another dealer..... standard practice as they would want to know what they are up against. Only a fool quotes blindly. Pity the previous garage didn't give you the fault code number. At the moment, nothing has really been examined, so its still open to question what is causing it.

Cut you losses ...... that is your decision if you want a tin box. lol.

C.

[skyblues11]

thanks RW1. once again i appreciate you input. I know i keep banging on about this but this is my first experience with such a complex problem. My prev. cars lasted over 7 years each with only the silly things like rear wipers going wrong.

I got panicky as well over the cost.

Is the basic setting procedure can be done by myself? I am no IT specilist but fairly computer competent. The impression i had from the local VAG specialist was that it had to be done by the dealer.

If so, then it makes the VCDS an essential part of ownership. At least its 100 quid cheaper!

Slightly off topic but related. Should i be more aware of the way i drive a DSG? like more caring to the clutch and put it to N when i stop at the lights? Like drive with a 'manual' mentality?

[RW1]

Is the basic setting procedure can be done by myself? I am no IT specilist but fairly computer competent.

Would prefer someone doing it with a bit familiarity of the depths of VCDS. But its not that hard.

The impression i had from the local VAG specialist was that it had to be done by the dealer.

That may because he hasn't the knowledge.

If so, then it makes the VCDS an essential part of ownership. At least its 100 quid cheaper!

Always packed as part of the cars I have. Carry it on an old HP Jornada PDA in one, Scirocco gets the luxury of a 14 year old Tosh Satellite Pro.

Slightly off topic but related. Should i be more aware of the way i drive a DSG? like more caring to the clutch and put it to N when i stop at the lights? Like drive with a 'manual' mentality?

I have never done the Neutral bit. Sit stationary with Foot Brake pressed. Foot Brake off, let the clutches engage. Then just set off with the throttle set and let the DSG drive the engine and car.

Relaxed start.... small amount of fixed throttle until target speed achieved.

Going somewhere, then feed the demand in the right foot over 2 seconds and hold at the large throttle setting until target speed acheived.

Never drive it like a manual.

The only time I floor it is during test recordings with VCDS. ECU controls the thottle anyway, right foot tells the ECU what you have demanded. Flooring it; at 3,000 rpm the throttle is at 70% open, when past 5,000 rpm, throttle finally is at 100% open.

If on the motorway or fast road, I use the kick down and "D" drops the gears and behaves like "S" mode, raising the RPM and holding it up there. But as before, always hold the right foot steady (never full throttle) until target speed is acheived.

C.