Scirocco unstable cornering at 180 kph.

[Essenwood]

Hello fellow Rocco's. I live on the Eastern seaboard of South Africa and drive a 2011 2.0 TSi DSG. The engine software has been upgraded to a Stage 1 APR system, that makes a useful difference to the performance. My concern is the cars cornering characteristics and would appreciate some helpful feedback. The Scirocco is only used for twice a week return trips of 250 kms on excellent tarred freeways. I normally travel at road speeds of between 160-200 km/hr,with 180 km/hr appearing to be an easily maintained cruising speed.The Scirocco is a joy to drive for 95 percent of the time. However,I have noticed,when even fairly wide corners are approached at those speeds(always dry roads),the car tends to proceed from a mild understeer to rapidly start oversteering.Almost immediately one of the Dashboard Skid Control lights come on. Gently touching the brakes worsens an already bad situation,so you are left having to "tough it out" with a sweaty brow and clammy hands. The APR tuning specialist suggested fitting 10 mm wheel spacers, but this will surely delay (and ultimately exhasterbate) a tricky situation.My Scirocco is not fitted with the Active Drive option, but based on the ride,I would say it has a close to "Sport" setting.Obviously I do not want to have to drive any slower. In fact barring the aforementioned corners,fast speeds are easily achieved,maintained and enjoyed. However, I do not want my car to end up lying on it's roof,which is exactly the feeling being conveyed when this type of cornering is experienced.All informed advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Chungster]

What are the condition of your tyres, front and rear?

Braking in an over steer situation is not advisable really. In a FWD car you need to put your foot down to pull the front end round.

However you should drive to the condition of the road. I don't know how open or tight the corners are when you're experiencing oversteer, but taking them at 110+ mph is maybe asking a bit much of the car??

[Essenwood]

Good Evening Chungster.
The tyres are in very good condition and are,at last inspection,only about 40 percent worn. For a car that has covered 26 000 kms,I consider the wear to be normal. I do understand that use of the foot brake in fast cornering is not correct,and as you rightfully say,gentle acceleration is what should be used to pull the nose through. It is actually the rate at which the Scirocco's cornering characteristics change that is alarming. I do not believe that my driving speeds are that high. When conditions are at an optimum and little or no traffic is about, the Scirocco seems to encourage a quick pace,hence the shock at suddenly slipping sideways.

[Deacon]

Have you had a geometry set up done? It may be a little out for some reason maybe. My car felt far more stable and predictable after I had mine done.

[Chungster]

I would describe the characteristic as "playful" which is good in my view!

[Essenwood]

Hello Deacon.
In all honesty I have not thought about checking the geometry. I purchased the car new and it has not been involved in any form of accident. Does one take such a request to a VW Authorised dealer for attention particularly in view of the fact that it is not even 12 months old? Additionally I am somewhat recalcitrant to raise this issue with VW South Africa, whose main dealers tend to raise a proverbial eyebrow when been told about the speeds involved and no doubt log it down for future use against you in the event of a claim on the warranty.

[Deacon]

I took mine to an independent UK specialist. I wouldn't trust the average VW dealer to be able to carry out a proper geometry set up. My car hadn't been involved in anything but the VW tolerances are quite wide. There is definite room for improvement.

[wigit]

always found rocco less progressive than a GTI and oddly having gone head to head with a mk6 GTI on track rocco never felt as planted on fast bends (around 110mph) and golf had edge

there is plenty of adjustment at the rear end if you take it to someone who knows what they are doing and you know how you want the car set up

i had mine set up to be more progressive at rear and playful, just had the Ed35 set up so the rear turns in better so car feels more responsive

[Essenwood]

Hello Widgit. I am going to try and find a chassis tuning specialist to look into geometry changes and possible setup alterations. This will mean a 1 200 km return trip to Johannesburg,where there are a plethora of such businesses. However you appear to have experienced a similar situation to mine when you refer to a comparison with the Golf MK 6. Incidently I was watching Scirocco R Cup television coverage recently and could not help noticing the large rear spoilers attached to the cars. They certainly seemed to be more than a tad oversize for the track's requirements,which leaves me still wondering if there is in actual fact an airflow issue at play here,resulting in rear end lift at speed and consequently tricky high speed cornering characteristics.

[wigit]

my Edition 35 was set up on laser and in theory was spot on as we went conservative, having lived with it i wanted it to be more lively, my arbs (eibach) were set soft on front (better turn in) but they but more toe in on rear so it would play (each to there own)

alos rocco is light at rear due to weight distribution (rear axle loadings are very different to GTI)

[goatboy]

Sorry if this sounds patronising but...

are you lifting off the accelerator when you start experiencing understeer?
"Lift off oversteer" is likely to happen at those sorts of speeds, don't suppose a Geo will help you much if its driving style thats the issue...

[Essenwood]

The honest answer to the question of lifting off the accelerator is yes. And the proof is that the indicated speed drops off fairly rapidly. I do understand that I should be doing the exact opposite,i.e. increasing acceleration to pull the nose through the corner. However that is easier said than done because the Scirocco's handling ability,right up to that moment, seems predictable and controllable. It is the sudden change in attitude that is the concern. I am going to have the geometry checked and if no red flags are raised at that stage,will probably just modify the speeds at which I approach corners. This will be a bit of a let down as the great good looks and appearance of this car encourage a little adventure. What's to be,will be!

[gibbsy]

There could be several reasons other than the car that may be giving rise to your concerns. Are your tyres up to the job, are they braking adhension? Is there dust on the road? Does the road camber correctly? Are you reading the road correctly for your angle of entry?

[goatboy]

The honest answer to the question of lifting off the accelerator is yes. And the proof is that the indicated speed drops off fairly rapidly. I do understand that I should be doing the exact opposite,i.e. increasing acceleration to pull the nose through the corner. However that is easier said than done because the Scirocco's handling ability,right up to that moment, seems predictable and controllable. It is the sudden change in attitude that is the concern. I am going to have the geometry checked and if no red flags are raised at that stage,will probably just modify the speeds at which I approach corners. This will be a bit of a let down as the great good looks and appearance of this car encourage a little adventure. What's to be,will be!

Hmm not sure you understand my point...

If you experiencing understeer and at that point lift the accelerator off you will get "lift off oversteer".
Common to almost all FWD cars (and to some extent RWD cars too) some are worse than others, search for it on youtube and you'll see what I mean.

Unfortunately it sounds like you are just going too fast for the corners...

Changing the car set-up may push the limits of where this will happen a little higher, it may make it a bit more predictable in the way it happens, but it won't go away. I'm guessing, and I don't want to seem rude, but its more about driving technique rather than the car I suspect.

[Essenwood]

Today I took my Scirocco on a 420 km journey to put into practice advice given on this forum. It was a resounding success. I took to approaching corners,slower than I would have done before,and then accelerating briskly through and out and on to the straight portions of the freeway. The front end understeer is still present,but at a much lower intensity. In fact I got the impression that my exit speeds were significantly higher than before. This was borne out at the end of the trip when I calculated the true average speed and it was up on previous journeys. Thank you to all those members if this forum who "steered me in the right direction".

[Chungster]

Slow in, fast out =

[Essenwood]

You are so right Chungster. I used the Sport mode on the DSG gearbox . Somehow,like magic, it selected the correct gear evertime,making the slow in,fast out method effortless. Now that I am over this issue,I can honestly say the Scirocco is certainly one of the most enjoyable cars that I have owned.

[goatboy]

glad you got it sorted.