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1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-2010?
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:09 am
by Zanic L3
Does this problem only occur in 2009-2010 models?
I'm looking into buying a 2009 160hp model for 10k with only 47k km's (which seems a great deal). But I'm scared of the piston problems, I'm not sure if the engine is already replaced or not, I guess not.
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Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:12 pm
by skippy
Those early years are when these type of problems are most likely - yes.
Car in question is very low mileage I see 47K (KM), which is about 32,000 miles and looks clean and well cared for. It could be perfectly fine, but you may have that playing on your mind which will spoil the ownership. I would try and look for a newer model if possible, but assume that one does not have a replacement engine.
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:12 pm
by blower
Only 2012 onward's can you be confident of no piston problems, as it was only then they changed the manufacturer of the pistons from Mahle (chocolate) to KS.
There were conditions in anything pre-2011 models that would exacerbate the likelyhood of piston death (wrong sparks, early revision injectors, a short period in 2009 with bad piston rings etc)
Now this is not to say that anything pre-2012 is going to throw its pistons - just he likelyhood is greater.
From what i have seen they tend to throw their pistons after 60,000 miles.
I believe the weakness of the pistons is due to poor casting, so some are going to be ok and some not.
I have yet to hear of any 2012 onwards models throwing a piston.
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:50 pm
by davidscirocco
So is there something that the pre 2012 owners can do to reduce the possibility of breaking pistons? I have a 2009 (MY2010) model and has 100,000 miles on it.. i was thinking of remaping my car but after this post im having second thoughts..
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:49 pm
by risingson
I'm in the same position davidscirocco. I think I did less than 20k miles when my engine blew so you may be all right. I assume you are driving it at full pelt already. But now my engine has been replaced I'm still wary about remapping using a bluefin I have access to. I did a post about it earlier but no one replied (probably too long and nauseating!)
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Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:13 pm
by davidscirocco
In my mind the only way through this is updating the pistons with latest revition or buy an aftermarket or last choice that i dont want is sell the car... But it would really helpful if someone that has more experience with this engines to give us some advice on what to do to lower the risk of breaking the pistons
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:33 pm
by blower
davidscirocco wrote:In my mind the only way through this is updating the pistons with latest revition or buy an aftermarket or last choice that i dont want is sell the car... But it would really helpful if someone that has more experience with this engines to give us some advice on what to do to lower the risk of breaking the pistons
This is what i did - fitted wossner forged pistons.....a very expensive precaution!, but i did it as part of other upgrades.
There are things you can do to reduce the chance of failure, and they are linked to the problems that exacerbated piston failure on the earlier models.
Only use 97/98/99 RON premium fuel
Engine knock and pre-ignition can put the piston under great strain, and with these engines being high boost and in particular high boost under low RPM they are more likely to run into LSPI - (Low Speed Pre-Ignition).
Using higher octane fuels can reduce the chance of engine knock and pre-ignition.
The premium fuels also usually contain more additives to help keep injectors clean, more on that below..
Once a year, as part of the normal service, drop a can of high quality injector cleaner in such as Forte specialist injector cleaner
Earlier revisions came with injectors that were more clone to clogging up, causing poor spray patterns and increasing the chance of misfires or incomplete burns (increasing the chance of pre-ignition from excessive carbon build up on the piston crowns)
An annual in tank injector cleaner should help keep your injectors clean.
Stick to the oil service interval (10k miles / 12 months)
As the miles build up, the oil can thin out due to petrol contamination - especially if you are suffering from incomplete burns.
Changing oil regularly is essential on this engine, contaminated/old/thinned out oil puts more strain on the piston rings due to friction....and these pistons always break right on the ring lands, at their weakest point.
if you do a lot of short journeys, change oil every 5k miles / 6 months.
Change sparks or regap every 20k miles, change at 40k miles regardless
Early production dates of these engines (pre mid 2010) had the wrong sparks fitted, which had the wrong gap size.
Ideal gap sizes on these engines are 0.7 to 0.8. If the gap gets above 0.9 misfiring can occur under high boost...misfiring = bore wash = piston ring friction = piston death.
Use the right spark plugs: VW Genuine 03C905601B or NGK SIZFR6B8EG (96209) - they are exactly the same as the VW ones which are NGK rebranded.
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:41 am
by davidscirocco
blower wrote:davidscirocco wrote:In my mind the only way through this is updating the pistons with latest revition or buy an aftermarket or last choice that i dont want is sell the car... But it would really helpful if someone that has more experience with this engines to give us some advice on what to do to lower the risk of breaking the pistons
This is what i did - fitted wossner forged pistons.....a very expensive precaution!, but i did it as part of other upgrades.
There are things you can do to reduce the chance of failure, and they are linked to the problems that exacerbated piston failure on the earlier models.
Only use 97/98/99 RON premium fuel
Engine knock and pre-ignition can put the piston under great strain, and with these engines being high boost and in particular high boost under low RPM they are more likely to run into LSPI - (Low Speed Pre-Ignition).
Using higher octane fuels can reduce the chance of engine knock and pre-ignition.
The premium fuels also usually contain more additives to help keep injectors clean, more on that below..
Once a year, as part of the normal service, drop a can of high quality injector cleaner in such as Forte specialist injector cleaner
Earlier revisions came with injectors that were more clone to clogging up, causing poor spray patterns and increasing the chance of misfires or incomplete burns (increasing the chance of pre-ignition from excessive carbon build up on the piston crowns)
An annual in tank injector cleaner should help keep your injectors clean.
Stick to the oil service interval (10k miles / 12 months)
As the miles build up, the oil can thin out due to petrol contamination - especially if you are suffering from incomplete burns.
Changing oil regularly is essential on this engine, contaminated/old/thinned out oil puts more strain on the piston rings due to friction....and these pistons always break right on the ring lands, at their weakest point.
if you do a lot of short journeys, change oil every 5k miles / 6 months.
Change sparks or regap every 20k miles, change at 40k miles regardless
Early production dates of these engines (pre mid 2010) had the wrong sparks fitted, which had the wrong gap size.
Ideal gap sizes on these engines are 0.7 to 0.8. If the gap gets above 0.9 misfiring can occur under high boost...misfiring = bore wash = piston ring friction = piston death.
Use the right spark plugs: VW Genuine 03C905601B or NGK SIZFR6B8EG (96209) - they are exactly the same as the VW ones which are NGK rebranded.
Lets say I bought the pistons. How much extra do you pay for the mechanic to install them? Give or take?
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:19 am
by blower
Its probably around £1000 in labour - its about a 15 hour job on this engine and that's if you know what you are doing.
You will also need £200 in gaskets, seals and bolts.
It will also be wise to replace the timing chain, tensioners, guide rails - the kit is about £200 from VW for a full chain replacement along with sprockets and a new camshaft adjuster.
With the cost of the pistons and the above, you are looking at around £2000 all in.
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:52 pm
by davidscirocco
blower wrote:Its probably around £1000 in labour - its about a 15 hour job on this engine and that's if you know what you are doing.
You will also need £200 in gaskets, seals and bolts.
It will also be wise to replace the timing chain, tensioners, guide rails - the kit is about £200 from VW for a full chain replacement along with sprockets and a new camshaft adjuster.
With the cost of the pistons and the above, you are looking at around £2000 all in.
Re: 1.4 TSI 160HP Piston problems/missfires only in 2009-201
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:53 pm
by davidscirocco
blower wrote:Its probably around £1000 in labour - its about a 15 hour job on this engine and that's if you know what you are doing.
You will also need £200 in gaskets, seals and bolts.
It will also be wise to replace the timing chain, tensioners, guide rails - the kit is about £200 from VW for a full chain replacement along with sprockets and a new camshaft adjuster.
With the cost of the pistons and the above, you are looking at around £2000 all in.
I have already changed my chain and tensioner so i guess I'll need the rest?
You know whats funny about all these? Its been 5 years that im saving money to do the R bodykit and everytime im close with my savings something else must come up that sets me back
