VW / Insurance to pay for 1.4 TSI 160 rebuild

[Sven101]

I bought a 1.4 TSI 160 with 7 speed DSG after it had done ca 15,000 km. It was first used on the road in Aug 2013 and I bought it Dec 2014. When it got near 30,000 km it had the classic “use oil then destroy a piston” which is well documented on here and other sites. It had 2 oil changes and was due its third soon.

I am in Sweden and VW only provide 2 year warranty but upto eight years engine and transmission is covered by the insurance company if you have it serviced regularly, genuine parts etc. Actually VW and the insurance company have been quite good so far. VW agreed to pay for parts and 30% of labour and insurance company the rest.

They did a compression test then removed the spark plugs and put a camera inside. They came to the conclusion that the piston is cracked between the rings in one cylinder, another is losing pressure and the remaining 2 are OK. After reading about the problems with this engine I said that is quite a common problem to the mechanic isn't it. He was also quite honest and said “lets put it this way they have now changed the piston design and software”. So next week its going to get; 4 new pistons, new gasket with seals etc, head unit and also a water pump/supercharger switch. From the camera they said the cylinders look OK and they will hone them.

Well I am rather concerned that this may happen again in another 30,000 ish unless the new pistons/software really fix the problem. I only drive ca 10,000 km per year but its relatively short distances 7km to work and back, plus short trips at lunchtime to restaurants. Many of these are really cold starts in Swedish winter, frequently below minus 10. It also probably doesnt help that 100m from home I have to accelerate quickly onto a dual carriageway. But the DSG is always in standard automatic so that limits the revs.

So finally the questions and reason for writing this ?
- Does anyone know what the latest version (part number) of the pistons VW is using now and are they significantly better than those put in engines in 2012/3 ?
- I assume the software update is to help prevent misfires and does it really make a difference ?
- Most fuel around here is 95, but the car can also run on E85. Its a special scandinavia version with corrosion resistant fuel lines. Being higher octane is it worth using E85 and/or 98 to prevent misfire and piston damage ?
- Not really sure why they are switching the water pump ? Is there a new version to help suck more heat from the engine or just that the old one fails so much ?

Im trying to decide how long to keep it after the engine is fixed so any information appreciated !

[blower]

Damn sorry to hear about your engine failure (seems i'm saying this a lot recently)....

Do you know the date of manufacture? - VW stopped using Mahle pistons in early 2012, these are the pistons that have failed a lot.
They switched to KS pistons, part number 03C107065CK - this, to date, is still the latest part number (checked on up to date ETKA)

If your date of manufature is after march 2012 then you should have these latest pistons already - and this would be the first failure i have heard of of these pistons.
There were some software changes, for 2012 models - but don't think there were any updates after what a 2012 would come with.

These engines really need to be running on 97 RON minimum, regardless of what the manual says - the high boost pressures at low RPM makes them prone to LSPI - low speed pre-ignition and knock, you want top quality fuel to try and prevent this.

The water pump is also the supercharger clutch on this engine (it's one integrated unit). This was revised in mid 2010 as early versions would squeak a lot upon clutch engagement. Unsure why they are replacing it if car is newer than a mid 2010, maybe it was found to be leaking.

If they are fitting new pistons and you had the old revision (due to car being a pre-2012 manufacture) then you should be good for the future - the KS pistons are much better and i have not heard of a failure....i'm just hoping your engine is not newer than march 2012 as it would be the first failure i have seen with the new pistons.

[blower]

Does sound like your engine gets a real beating mind you - short journeys, high acceleration when still cold - far worse for an engine than going full throttle on every journey (when warmed up fully)

I do believe LSPI or continuous knock is the cause of piston death on these engines.
Continuous short journeys are going to substantially increase the chance of an LSPI event - as LSPI is caused from carbon buildup in the cylinder (either on the pistons, or valves) and high cylinder temperatures resulting from the high boost at low RPM via the supercharger.

It is recommended at least once a week to give the car a good hammering (once oil temp is above 70c)....full throttle runs, to burn off excess carbon buildup.

Also only use premium fuel which will have additives to help keep the injectors clean (partly clogged injectors can go undetected causing excessive carbon buildup from bad spray patterns along with a cylinder running leaner and hence hotter - the perfect scenario for LSPI)
The higher octane will also help reduce knock...this engine/ECU is not very good at detecting knock via its sensor.

You should also be on a 5000 miles oil change service with primarily short journeys.

[Sven101]

Thanks blower. Been looking at some of your other posts as well. Very useful.
Service book is in the car at the garage. Will post the details when it comes back.
From memory I know it was first used on the road in Aug 2013 but how long it spent at the dealers and when the engine was actually built before that I dont know.

When next there I also want to find out all the details of the DSG gearbox I have. Been a few issues with them in Sweden. Particularly in Taxis where they stopped selling them. High milage, lots of stop-start and heavy loads (luggage) tended to fry so many within the warranty that VW only sold the more robust version.

Fortunately this is the first time I have had such major problem with a car. A total of 7 cars in 18 years normally bought when 2 years old and sold 2 or 3 years later. They have all had annual service and hardly anything in between. Peugeot 307 years ago had all sorts of electric problems below -15C and should not really have been sold in scandinavia but no engine issues.
Before this I had a Volvo V50 1.8 and 1.6 Beetle (kids required bigger cars) which were doing exactly the same journeys as the TSI but had less bhp per cc.

Guess the lack of issues has made me trust modern cars and this one is going to require a bit more monitoring.....

[blower]

Thanks blower. Been looking at some of your other posts as well. Very useful.
Service book is in the car at the garage. Will post the details when it comes back.
From memory I know it was first used on the road in Aug 2013 but how long it spent at the dealers and when the engine was actually built before that I dont know.

When next there I also want to find out all the details of the DSG gearbox I have. Been a few issues with them in Sweden. Particularly in Taxis where they stopped selling them. High milage, lots of stop-start and heavy loads (luggage) tended to fry so many within the warranty that VW only sold the more robust version.

Fortunately this is the first time I have had such major problem with a car. A total of 7 cars in 18 years normally bought when 2 years old and sold 2 or 3 years later. They have all had annual service and hardly anything in between. Peugeot 307 years ago had all sorts of electric problems below -15C and should not really have been sold in scandinavia but no engine issues. Guess the lack of issues has made me trust modern cars and this one is going to require a bit more monitoring.....

I had issues with my DSG too - mines a 2010, bought the car with 30k miles on it in 2013. Previous owner had a new clutch pack in 2012....i've since had a new mechatronics (2013) and a new clutch pack again (2015) - latest ones supposed to have fixed the juddering issue in 2nd gear. Done 12,000 miles on this new clutch pack without issue - too early to tell if they have fixed the issue as they tend to start juddering again anywhere btwn 10k and 20k miles.

[Sven101]

Well the car was fixed pretty quickly and good service from the garage. Total cost was about 3000 GBP, one third was the parts and two thirds was the 20 hours or so labour it took.

The pistons were broke inbetween the rings, similar to these -> https://1200cctsiengine.wordpress.com/o ... s-defects/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mechanic said the new pistons (part no. 03C 107 065 CK) have thicker section between the top two rings so should be stronger.

Engine was a CKMA type (118 kW) and transmission PMH (7 speed dry).

There is a 2 year guarantee on the new parts and 1 year from the garage on labour. On top of this a common feature of swedish insurance is that provided you have regular approved service and the car is less than 8 years old or <150,000 km, you are covered for mechanical failure.

Apart from needing an engine rebuild for new pistons, which admittedly is a big problem if you have to pay it yourself, there has not been any other issues. Would really like the DSG to have another mode inbetween "D" which changes up too soon and leaves the engine to labour at low revs (changes ca 1800 rpm) and "S" mode which changes ca 3200 rpm. If driving this car in manual I would change ca 2500 rpm.

There is a shell V-power garage near here so will see if that makes a difference and also check the oil regularly.

Had a quick look at the new 1.5 turbo replacement for this engine. It actually seems to fix some of the major issues:
- New smaller, more optimised position injectors.
- Only has turbo and not the supercharger so less bits to go wrong, maybe easier to strip engine down. Hopefully they have used all the knowledge and experience of Porsche when it comes to the variable geometry turbos.
- Engine cooling is also controlled by the ECU so only switches on the cooling once at temperature. Seems such an obvious thing to do since currently at cold start the ECU is trying the warm the engine up whilst the cooling system is trying to cool it down. If I remember correctly the cooling is also improved. Owners of the current engine will know that it runs hot.
Be interesting to see how reliable it is. They claim a 12.5:1 compression ratio and being able to run on regular 95. We will see.....