Possible DSG Issue

[MarkH]

Hi all who have a R with DSG

I also have one (a 2012 model) and am mostly very happy but there is one issue that is concerning me more and more with the DSG.
The car has only gone 13,500 km and the gearbox is now feeling like it has a great deal of backlash when taking up load.

It's a difficult thing to describe - but it's as if there is a lag between when I start to accelerate and when the load is taken up by the wheels or gearbox or drive shafts (can't tell).
It is a clunk as the power hits the drive and it's not loud but more of a feeling. It makes me apply the power very delicately and nervously particularly when driving around the suburban streets with repetitive corners, intersections etc. Very noticeable when backing out of the driveway and then putting it into drive and taking up the difference between revers and forward motion.

Has anyone else experienced this?

It's as if something in the gearbox which pre-loads the whole drive train is broken.

Thanks for any input


Mark H.

[SMB]

You posted something similar months ago, what did the dealer say?

You can create something like you are suggesting if you press the accelerator a little too hard before the clutches have stared to engage.
What you are describing could be a number of things, so some tests for you to do when you have a clear space to test
- on a level road, stop the car, put the car in park, release the foot brake for 3-4 seconds then put it in d by only very lightly putting your foot on the footbrake, let go of the brake, do not touch the throttle, you may feel the car pull against the hill hold feature for a few seconds then that should release, the car should creep forward smoothly without you touching the throttle. Does it?
- now again stop the car, put it in d, try the same in reverse, in fact if you want you can try this and the previous test a few times.

My expectation is that in forward gears the car , will release the hill hold brake feature and you should pull away smoothly. In reverse the design of the rear brakes seems to sometime cause seem striction of the pads to the disk and you can occasionally but not always find that even with the hill hold released the car pulls against the brakes, generally a slight extra piece of throttle releases them. This is a brake pad issue not a dsg one.

As an aside do you consider yourself to have a heavy right foot? Ie do you like to accelerate briskly from a stand still normally?

[viper gas]

Don't want to scare you but I have heard that the dsg on other vw sometimes develop similar problems. I would suggest going to the dealer and getting them to look at it. I read that it could be a design fault on the newer dogs.
I recently bought a 2006 dsg with 5 speed gear Bix and it runs great. I steered away from the 6 speed gearbox because it was known to be associated with issues. Good luck.

[iforland]

I know its a completely different system but did some work on a Toyota with a semi auto box which didn't "creep" like an auto should, all it required was the system to be adjusted, and there was a defined process in the workshop manual to do so. Fixed the problem and transformed the car. As the DSG box has 2 clutches is there a similar setup / adjustment that needs to be done on the DSG box to account for normal wear and tear?

[shshivji]

Don't want to scare you but I have heard that the dsg on other vw sometimes develop similar problems. I would suggest going to the dealer and getting them to look at it. I read that it could be a design fault on the newer dogs.
I recently bought a 2006 dsg with 5 speed gear Bix and it runs great. I steered away from the 6 speed gearbox because it was known to be associated with issues. Good luck.

They don't make a 5 speed dsg, they have a 6 speed and 7 speed, the 6 speed is far more reliable then the 7.

As for the issue, mine did the same so I plugged it into vag com and performed a full dsg reset and clutch adaption, it's working like it should now. Take it to a good indi with vcds and tell them to perform a reset and clutch adaption should sort it :-)

Shak

[skippy]

I was going to say, I have never heard of a 5 speed DSG, and to be honest both 6 and 7 speed boxes are reliable. The technology has been around for 10 years or so now, yes there have been gremlins but you will only get to hear the bad issues raised on a forum.

[shshivji]

I was going to say, I have never heard of a 5 speed DSG, and to be honest both 6 and 7 speed boxes are reliable. The technology has been around for 10 years or so now, yes there have been gremlins but you will only get to hear the bad issues raised on a forum.

Very true :-)

Shak

[uklee]

I agree , the internet ( and user forums in particular) do tend to exaggerate the focus on negative reports - much like all the bad press the 1.4 TSi engines get - even though there are 10's of thousands of then running around without any problems

That said , when was the last time any of us read a complaint about the 6 speed manual box ? ...

Lee

[shshivji]

I agree , the internet ( and user forums in particular) do tend to exaggerate the focus on negative reports - much like all the bad press the 1.4 TSi engines get - even though there are 10's of thousands of then running around without any problems

That said , when was the last time any of us read a complaint about the 6 speed manual box ? ...

Lee

Plenty of issues with them too, here's an example :-)

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/show ... ox-problem

Shak

[moulin12]

I was going to say, I have never heard of a 5 speed DSG, and to be honest both 6 and 7 speed boxes are reliable. The technology has been around for 10 years or so now, yes there have been gremlins but you will only get to hear the bad issues raised on a forum.

Skippy, I have to respectfully disagree. The clutch pack issue with the 7 sp box is a known issue (there's a TPI out on it), and there are just far too many internet pages out there, originating from many countries, for this to be a case of simple reporting of misfortunes. It's why my car is, as I write, at the dealers having a new clutch pack and shims fitted under VW goodwill, even though the car is more than 3 years old.

Handful of links for cars across the VAG range, grabbed in just a few minutes, all with D2 judder on the DQ200 boxes : golfs, polos, skodas, audi, seat.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/ ... 873-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vweosclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=98521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=363875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/show ... DSG-Judder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/27 ... -warranty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/28 ... heavy-car/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topi ... G+Problems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[shshivji]

I was going to say, I have never heard of a 5 speed DSG, and to be honest both 6 and 7 speed boxes are reliable. The technology has been around for 10 years or so now, yes there have been gremlins but you will only get to hear the bad issues raised on a forum.

Skippy, I have to respectfully disagree. The clutch pack issue with the 7 sp box is a known issue (there's a TPI out on it), and there are just far too many internet pages out there, originating from many countries, for this to be a case of simple reporting of misfortunes. It's why my car is, as I write, at the dealers having a new clutch pack and shims fitted under VW goodwill, even though the car is more than 3 years old.

Handful of links for cars across the VAG range, grabbed in just a few minutes, all with D2 judder on the DQ200 boxes : golfs, polos, skodas, audi, seat.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/ ... 873-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vweosclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=98521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=363875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/show ... DSG-Judder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/27 ... -warranty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/28 ... heavy-car/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topi ... G+Problems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a massive problem on the 7 speed box, very very common and come across this my self a few times with our customers!

Shak

[skippy]

Hi Moulin12/Shak,

Many thanks for your info here, I do agree that 6 speed (wet) is the better box than the 7 speed (dry) set-up. Although my Scirocco is a manual, I am used to the 7 speed DSG as we also own a Polo GTI with this box, but still only 14K on the clock.

I have heard of replacement clutch packs happening, like yourself our Polo is over 3 years old, so worse case, I would be looking for VW to stump up goodwill if we need it. At the moment all seems fine, but I read that problems can start at 25K?

May I ask what the symptoms are of the clutches going? I guess it is the infamous 'judder' from the mechatronics? Oddly enough, ours used to judder slightly but improved with mileage, but I think the dealer also probably reset it anyway.

[shshivji]

Hi Moulin12/Shak,

Many thanks for your info here, I do agree that 6 speed (wet) is the better box than the 7 speed (dry) set-up. Although my Scirocco is a manual, I am used to the 7 speed DSG as we also own a Polo GTI with this box, but still only 14K on the clock.

I have heard of replacement clutch packs happening, like yourself our Polo is over 3 years old, so worse case, I would be looking for VW to stump up goodwill if we need it. At the moment all seems fine, but I read that problems can start at 25K?

May I ask what the symptoms are of the clutches going? I guess it is the infamous 'judder' from the mechatronics? Oddly enough, ours used to judder slightly but improved with mileage, but I think the dealer also probably reset it anyway.

It's mainly clutch judder in 1st and 2nd gear, the dealers have been doing a software update to help the issue hence why yours might feel a little better now :-)

Shak

[skippy]

Many thanks Shak, yes - I can't say that ours judders like has been described, I don't think it is perfect though, sometimes I can detect clutch 'slip' under heavy acceleration in full auto. It seems happier when changing the gears manually.

[shshivji]

Many thanks Shak, yes - I can't say that ours judders like has been described, I don't think it is perfect though, sometimes I can detect clutch 'slip' under heavy acceleration in full auto. It seems happier when changing the gears manually.

In 2nd gear?? Or in higher gears??

Shak

[skippy]

More higher gears, 4th-5th-6th, the car seems to 'lurch' a little between gears under harder acceleration. Lower gears it does not seem to be an issue. This may be all ok anyway, but just want to ensure I don't have these clutch issues also. I do know some other Polo GTI owners have had replacement or upgraded clutch packs. Slightly off topic on a Scirocco forum!

[moulin12]

More higher gears, 4th-5th-6th, the car seems to 'lurch' a little between gears under harder acceleration. Lower gears it does not seem to be an issue. This may be all ok anyway, but just want to ensure I don't have these clutch issues also. I do know some other Polo GTI owners have had replacement or upgraded clutch packs. Slightly off topic on a Scirocco forum!

Skippy, I haven't experienced on mine what your describe, though I have felt that the DSG update acts to hold onto gears longer than before. Additionally, the transition time for the change between gears appears to have been increased, giving an impression of clutch slippage; possibly this is what you are experiencing, should your dealer have applied the update as part of carrying out servicing.

In common with other owners, I found that the DSG update significantly reduced the judder issue, and which is possibly best described as not so much as a judder during D1 & D2 transition but simply as judder in D2. It's experienced when coasting in D2 and then applying throttle under conditions that make demands on engine/gearbox torque e.g. sharp turn on a incline when looking to move left or right from a junction.

However, the update is only helping mask the issue (when it has raised its head), and it starts to get worse again.

I've read quite extensively around the forums, and the mileage of 20-25K appears to be a typical range for when the issue first surfaces. I suspect that it partly depends on how the car has been driven as to when or if it becomes an issue on a car. I try to be mindful about how I drive e.g. use N at stops and avoid letting the car 'creep' too much, but I am not the first owner of the car. That said, there are other owners who have had their cars from new, and believe they have taken care of their cars, and yet have experienced the issue around the 10-12K mark.

As mentioned, my car is being repaired under goodwill. I suspect this is partly because the issue has been in place since I purchased the car as a VW approved vehicle, though it very possibly also because it is a known issue.

However, the dealers have pointed out that this won't be a guaranteed repair i.e. if it occurs again 6 months down the line then I might struggle to get another goodwill repair. Partly on that basis (but also for other reasons), the car will be going. Currently looking at the possibility of a new Scirocco R or Golf R, but don't know yet.

[skippy]

Hi Moulin12,

Thank you very much for your reply here. We still only have 14.5K on the Polo, I did drive it a little today, mindful of what I had read and can't say I have experienced the D2 issues.

I did raise it with the dealer last year about DSG performance and shift changes, but no surprise that they said all was functioning fine!

Car tends to be driven fairly gently overall (ie never in S mode). I too tend to put car into N if waiting any length of time.

As we do such low mileage in it (shared with my Scirocco), hopefully we will be ok! Don't anticipate being at 25K for another 2 1/2 years yet!

[MarkH]

OK - so after a long and frustrating process (mostly at my end) the local dealer workshop has fixed the problem with my gearbox by replacing the "mechatronics" module. (not certain the spelling is correct).

I had no idea what this was or what it looks like but it was described to me as a device which controls the clutches using some form of actuators. I Googled it and came up with this - http://www.volkswagen.com.sg/en/technol ... onics.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Complex thing apparently because it is a combination of mechanical/hydraulic and electronic control unit.
When it goes bust, it is not serviceable and so needs to be replaced.
Now that it is replaced, the DSG shifts like new (more like my Golf Mk7) but with more grunt

The workshop said they had not seen this issue previously with a Scirocco but had replaced mechatronics units on Golfs.

So - let's hope this is a long term fix.

For those of you who may be more interested in the issue itself - it was finally diagnosed as being a fault when under brakes the car shifts from third to second and then if the brake is released quickly and the accelerator applied, the gearbox/clutches are not ready to shift back up and it thumps as it takes up the load.


To those who provided feedback and thoughts on this issue - thank you.

[SMB]

Glad to hear it's sorted, so what process did you go through to get the dealer to see the issue and take steps to resolve? Did you find a way to make this issue repeatable in front of the dealer?