Stalling then failing to start 2009 TDI 170

[Ramblas]

Hi guys, I’m sorry for the incoming wall of words but I’m at a loss with how to solve this issue and want to include as much detail as possible to hopefully trigger an idea. Car’s been into the main dealers and they can’t find or diagnose any issues. As it stands I have no confidence in it and no solution/ideas.

The car is a 2009 2.0 TDI 170 which has done 75k. It is one of the recalled engines but I have not had the fix carried out as I don’t want it to cloud/confuse any issues over these stalls. Over the last 12 months or so it has stalled 4 times and not restarted easily. I can’t think of any similarities between episodes or any common factors.

• First time the car was cold, started fine and I pulled out of a parking space after work – about 6 feet out of the space the car juddered/stalled and wouldn’t restart (I’ll get on to the restarts later)
• Second time (months later) the car started fine from cold and I had traveled about 5 miles from work and was looking for a space in a supermarket car park. I was in gear and the car again juddered/stalled and wouldn’t restart – I definitely did not stall ‘manually’
• Third time (months after the second issue and about 2 months ago) the car was probably approaching full temp (It had been at full temp then left for an hour - I was about 5 min into the next journey) and I was stationary at red traffic lights in neutral with my foot off the clutch – the car juddered/stalled and wouldn’t restart causing rush hour chaos
• Fourth time was Monday just gone. I was travelling to work and the car was at full temperature having been travelling for 25 minutes. Travelling along in gear at about 40mph the car juddered fairly violently and cut out taking with it the power steering and brakes once the residual pressure had gone. This time the car wouldn’t restart before i drained the battery trying and I had to get breakdown cover out. It chose a narrow country lane this time – it has impeccable timing.

Restarting

After the stalls the car tries to turn over when I turn the key straight away, I can hear the starter turning and I can see the revs build slightly on the dash but it just won’t “catch” (feel the odd kick of a cylinder firing). If I wait and keep trying, eventually the ‘kicks’ of the engine trying to fire increase in frequency and the car will eventually return to life.. and drive perfectly like nothing was ever wrong. I have taken it into the dealership after episodes 2 and three and they can’t find anything wrong

Here is a video of the failed starts (the third brake light has just gone – that’s correct);
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The most recent time I tried so often to restart it I drained the battery and had to get my breakdown cover out. The guy came and plugged his code reader in – no errors so he wired me up to his van and tried to jump start it. The car was doing the failed starts as above but at this point he could see mass air flow errors appearing and the car still wouldn’t catch. He then squirted a bit of easy start and the car eventually fired up. It sounded pretty rough at first but 10s later it was like nothing happened. After the car had started the error codes disappeared so he wasn’t sure if the mass air flow errors were a cause or as a result of the engine trying to fire with no success. Took it straight into the dealers and again – they can find no error codes, they have taken the car out and can’t recreate it.

I have lost all confidence in a car that will stall in neutral and travelling along at 40. Concerns me enough with me driving let alone when my wife takes it – what if it happens again losing steering/brakes at 60? I can’t even sell it in good conscience and cut my losses.

I have read through all the posts I can find online but none I have found seem to mirror this situation.

One thing I have read suggests listening for the fuel pump to engage on the attempted restarts to rule out a dodgy pump which will keep in mind for if/when it does it again

Are there any other layman tests I can try with one pair of hands to try and isolate any issues myself when I’m trying to restart it?

Apologies for all the words but does anyone have any ideas? The dealership have said to bring it in if it happens again – but I know it will just be the same story, no error codes means in their eyes there’s no issue.

The car after Monday’s issue is driving just fine again (it was right after it first got going again) – no loss of power, no issues at all.

I have had the car since 2011 and not had any engine or gear issues. It occasionally has a barely noticeable lumpy idle which goes at 1000rpm

If you have made it to the end thanks so much for reading through and any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated

Ramblas

[Deagol]

Hi Ramblas,

I see that no-one has been able to help you yet and I'm scratching my head too. My 170 TDi is a 2010 on 84K miles but thankfully not suffered from your problem. We also have a 2.0D Touran on 145K miles. On occasion it has failed to start until we've turned it over a few times, or it has started then died immediately - but never whilst in motion like you suffered. Getting it going again did require a fair bit of cranking of the engine - probably three or four seconds worth rather than one or two. And a big cloud of diesel smoke out the back when it got going.

Dealer should be more active in thinking this through - mainly because your engine died whilst in motion. Have they considered the possibility of loose connections somewhere (I appreciate that bad wires would be more of an issue in a car with spark plugs!!). Simply checking for error codes sounds like a cop-out. They have to apply some old-fashioned thinking here, not just "computer says no" like an automaton.

Fingers crossed someone on the forum with more technical ability can help you, but i will continue to have a think.

D

[Cuprabob]

From your description and symptoms I would concentrate on the fuel system as it sounds like fuel starvation. I'm thinking this because it coughs and splutters when it cuts out and is difficult to restart. Diesels are difficult to restart once they are dry. The intermittent nature will make nigh on impossible to fix until the culprit actually fails and it won't restart at all.

[Ramblas]

Thanks for the replies guys - if it were fuel is there any way I could narrow it down to a component if it happens again?

Are there any fuel system components that don't provide error codes if faulting?

[Roy_01]

Maybe you can fit a small gauge between tank pump and the fuel filter to start with.
Also look if this problem is occuring when the fuel tank is empty or full.
If you have vcds you can also log the high fuel pressure and injected fuel quantity and deviation.

Also check the ground connections for damages.

[WelshRichy]

Hi everyone, im having the exact same problem as OP and was wondering and hoping you've managed to find the fault? My car is a 2010 2.0 tdi 170 on 144000.
Thanks in advance for any light shone!

[Helpme70]

Hi, I have just bought a 58 Scirocco 2.0 DSG and it was faultless the 3 hour drive home. Before, I bought it, we noticed a familiar pattern in previous MOTs, this being issues with the n/s dipped beam every other MOT, since 2011. Thought nothing of it really and was relieved that the issue seemed small. Drove the 3 hours from Lincoln to home no problem, lovely drive. My daughter and I started the car, this morning and noticed the bulb fault light on, on the dash, low and behold the infamous n/s dipped beam. She took the car for a spin with no issues and loved her upgrade from her 1.2 Micra Auto. We went to the car wash on way home, I took over, as always, as she hates car washes. In the queue, inching a car's length every minute or so, we get near the front then go to inch and the car stalls. What happened? Never stalled an auto before. Puzzled, not knowing what I'd done wrong I restarted and after a couple of attempts she's away. Get into position and through the car wash. After restarting the ignition at the exit, she stalls again. Another couple of attempts to restart and away she goes like nothing's happened. Still puzzled, we get to the traffic lights and again stall, 3 attempts to get her started and nothing since. I've drove her around trying to recreate the issue and nothing. I've seen temperature sensors being mentioned in a different thread but even though yours is a different model and a manual, the coincidence of the bulb warning light and very similar issue resonates with me. Did you find the issue?