1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

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bryson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 pm
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Deep Black
With a: Manual box

1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

Hi I have a 59 plate cavd engine which has a start up rattle problem. Timing chain was replaced 12 months ago @ 47000 miles. Car has now done 54000 miles

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This only seems to happen when the car has been run and warmed up then parked up for a hour or longer.
I've taken the car back to vw as they were the ones that replaced the timing chain witch came with a 2 year parts and labour warranty. They had my car for 3 days and said they tested the chain with a new tool they have. And all test show the chain and tensioner are fine. Any help would be much appreciated as vw said the next thing to do would be to start stripping the engine and looking for worn parts which they might not find.

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salsajoe
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I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Salsa Red
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Options: multifunction steering wheel, fogs, 18" alloys; DAB; XDS activated, DRLs reset, lock beep activated; indicator repeat set to 4; covered cup holder, rear seat 12v socket installed. metal pedals, 210 Golf GTi also in the stable. Scirocco gone - miss it. Polo GTI now.

Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by salsajoe »

Did they replace the tensioner and chain? Sometimes the chain wears the gear sprockets as well and these should have been checked when the chain and tensioner are replaced. My VW indie mechanic says he would probably replace the lot while it was stripped down.
bryson
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 pm
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Deep Black
With a: Manual box

Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

Yes they changed the lot. And also tested it with a tool they put on the crank and apply 40nm of pressure in each direction. And then measure in degrees of how far it travelled. They told me it's a new tool they have to test the chain and tensioner.

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froudeg
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I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Reflex Silver
With a: DSG box

Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by froudeg »

This is sounding like the camshaft adjuster.....please see my post here for all the wonderful sounds that the 1.4 tsi can make:

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... 25&t=20760

VW should have thought about replacing this whilst they did the chain and tensioner, in the past they used to replace the camshaft adjuster with the chain tensioner when a complaint was brought in with a startup rattle sound as they were never sure which one it was.
Looks like they can now either tell the subtle difference between the sounds, or use that tool as a test and just replace one or the other - the labour is exactly the same to replace either.
My camshaft adjuster occasionally sticks on cold starts - its something i will replace at some point, but i would do the chain and tensioner whilst i am at it.

All pre mid 2010 CAVD engines have the older design adjuster which will eventually start sticking. They usually stick more frequently as you come closer to your oil change interval
bryson
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 pm
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Deep Black
With a: Manual box

Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

Hi thanks for the info. It does sound like that. But mine never does it on a cold start it only seems to do it as the engine is cooling down. That video was taken a hour after using it last. And will do it every time while cooling. Be after 2 or 3 hours. But does not do it after 8 hrs.

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froudeg
Posts: 79
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I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by froudeg »

Yes normally it would only do it on a cold start. However it will also do it on an occasion where the engine momentarily struggles to start, which can happen in a scenario such as yours where the engine has cooled down a bit but is still warm...

Listening to the sound of your engine starting in that video it does sound to me like the rpm is lower than usual on a start (compare it to the audio frequency of the startup rattle in the first video of my post in that link) - that one sounds the same noise but a slightly higher pitch (higher starting rpm).

When you start the engine from cold, you should notice the rpm shoot up to 1500-2000, then settle down.
I'm reckoning when you're starting after this 1-2 hour cool down the rpm is not shooting up, and there might be a momentary shudder as it gets up to ~1000 rpm....this will be a slightly struggling start which will exacerbate the camshaft adjuster sticking (due to low oil pressure at the moment it tries to adjust)....either way the newer design camshaft adjuster alleviates these problems.

I've had the struggle to start sticking adjuster scenario a few times - this occured when i had injector problems which were causing struggling starts after a similar 30 minute - 3 hour cool down.
bryson
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 pm
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

Thank you for this information. I will pass this on when I take it to a independent garage.

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froudeg
Posts: 79
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I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
In: Reflex Silver
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by froudeg »

Good luck getting it sorted - these damn engines are great when they work, efficient and a lot of torque but pre-2011/2012 models have a lot of potential issues that one by one get sorted over the years of ownership.
froudeg
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:20 am
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by froudeg »

One other thing - do check with VW to make sure they didn't replace the camshaft adjuster when they did the chain & tensioner, you just want to make sure before delving into this job.
bryson
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:31 pm
I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

OK will dig the invoice out and see what it says thanks.

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bryson
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by bryson »

Come to think about it I don't think they did. I only got the car back from them yesterday. And when speaking to the technician I asked if it could be the camshaft adjuster. But he said the noise did not last long enough for it to be that. And it would last for around 8 to 10 seconds it it was that. But looking at videos they seem to last a couple of seconds. He seemed to think it could be a dry cam follower that quitens down when it gets oil. But also said it's a job they have never done before. He never mentioned about it being changed when the chain was.

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froudeg
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by froudeg »

Goes to show what the tech's know - my experience of multiple 'master' technicians at a VW dealership is they know jack.
They are good at following the VW workshop guides, but can only diagnose a fault by what a technical bulletin might say - even then they miss half the bulletins as don't search thoroughly enough on the system.

Your sound is definitely the camshaft adjuster - and if its the original 2009 one its certainly the cause of the problem. It never lasts as long as 8 to 10 seconds, its always a few seconds as in the videos.
Its nothing to do with a cam follower either - that would have to be totally screwed to be making that much noise on startup.

'A job they never done before' - heard that one as well...a derivative of the old 'never had this problem before' - that's what they said with my DSG 7 speed box which juddered....never seen this problem before.
After a year of multiple attempts to get them to sort it out under warranty, eventually a different tech admitted to me they done loads of them - only after he realised i understood this engine and gearbox better than he did.

I'd do every job on my car myself if i had a car lift and loads cash! - i've done most already but the really expensive ones i try to get done under warranty.
ashleydwarner
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Re: 1.4 tsi 160 help needed please.

Post by ashleydwarner »

Bryson - did you manage to sort this issue?

I'm thinking about selling my roc in June and wondered if it's worth fixing beforehand.

I too changed the timing chain and tensioner around 10months ago. The issue has returned which makes me
think that it might be the camshaft adjuster.

However after the timing chain and tensioner were changed I had an engine flush which was supposed to help clean the camshaft build up. Wondering if I should run that through the engine again before selling.
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