1.4 TSI 160 advice

[HynamDB]

Hi guys, new here.

Looking at upgrading to a Scirocco from a MK6 Golf 2.0 TDI, I can't get insured on the 2.0 TSI until I'm 25 unfortunately and I'm wanting to go back to petrol so I'm stuck with the 1.4 TSI.

Anyway, I keep reading a lot of horror stories regarding the 160hp model. The car I'm looking at is 2011 reg with 32k miles, full VWSH etc.

I'm just looking for a bit of info/clarification if anyone could help me out!

Is there any preventative measures to stop the misfire issues?

I've seen people saying that after 2012 VW started using different pistons to fix the issues, would it be worth investing in new pistons before any issues arise?

I read briefly about the 24S4 update from VW, is this known to prevent the issue or just cause more problems?

Is anyone aware of what the main differences are between the 160/122 models?

Thanks in advance, any help appreciated

[blower]

The 24S4 update was to re-calibrate the knock sensor in order for it to detect knock more easily when using poorer quality fuels.
All 1.4 TSI's have this update now as it was done very early on (2010).
Even though it would reduce premature piston failures in countries like Australia where the fuel quality is far more variable, it doesn't really have much effect in the UK.

As indicated the primary cause of failure on pre-2012 engines are the weak pistons cracking, Post Jan 2012 a different brand of pistons are used of which seem much strong and I have not heard of any failures.

Ideally changing the pistons for either the newer ones or even better forged pistons such as Wossner, will resolve the issue completely.
However this is costly, with the pistons alone costing £800+ (wossner), another £200 in gaskets and seals, and the work to change them being £500-£1000 in labour as it takes a lot of time to dismantle this engine.

The 122ps (CAXA) does not suffer from the same piston failure issue. The main differences are no supercharger, smaller turbo, a smaller and water cooled intercooler and a less aggressive tune. The smaller intercooler volume and small turbo does make up a bit for the lack of a supercharger - it does help reduce turbo lag and it's pretty responsive at the lower end.
The block is the same, the head is almost the same (exhaust springs are the only real diff).
Failures in this engine are few, only the timing chain failure is of note - but this is a failure that can happen to the 160ps and any TSI engine.
Regardless, It's rare for a chain to fail and nearly all chain failures stem from the car being left in gear, and rolling back slightly when parked and the engine is off.
If you have a manual gearbox, never leave it in gear on a TSI/TFSI/FSI engine - in particular on a 1.2/1.4 TSI.
The 122ps is a reliable engine, more reliable then the 2.0 TSI i would say.

Preventative measures on the 160ps:
-Always use premium fuel such as Shell V-power, Tesco momentum or my personal favourite - Sainsburys premium 97 (it seems to run best on this, best idle)
-Change sparks when due (every 40k), sooner if you primarily do short journeys. Only use VW 03C905601B or NGK SIZFR6B8EG (iridium with a 0.7-0.8mm gap)
-If you do short journeys only, give it a good run once a week to reduce carbon deposits
-Change oil when due, use only premium oils such as Quantum Longlife 3 5W30, or Castrol Edge 5W30

[HynamDB]

Thanks a lot for clearing that stuff up!

Maybe I'll look towards a newer model rather than invest in the pistons, much less work for the £2000.

Shouldn't be any issues with fuel, I always use V Power.
Currently I'm doing about 25 miles daily on the return trip to work, with about 4 miles each way sat in traffic and the rest on the M1.

Again, the advice is much appreciated. Hopefully I'll be around here a bit more after putting the money into a new Scirocco

[lordlosh]

Blower, are the new revised piston KS good enough for a tuning? Can they handle 220-240hp ?
And how is your car with the wossner forged piston ? All its okay there?
And which of this 2 piston will be better?

[blower]

Wossner are the best - as they are forged.

The KS pistons are still cast pistons - just without the weakness that caused the original mahle pistons to fail.
I would expect the KS pistons to handle tuning, but if you are going for new pistons get the wossner - the price will probably be similar but the wossner, being forged, are far superior.

Car running well with the new pistons - not skipped a beat, oil consumption is next to nothing, MPG good

[lordlosh]

Thanks mate once again. I`m about to do something big, already buyed NGK Iridium IX Spark Plugs - BKR7EIX , R8 Coils with adapters from TMG Performance and their TMG Carbon Cold Air Intake for 1.4 TSI Twincharged
http://www.tmg-performance.com/en/tmg-carbon-447.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They are waiting to be placed in the my car.
Wossner pistons is next.

[lordlosh]

Few more question, how many km you working out(develop) the car with the new pistons ? And in what RPM ?
Also with what oil you drive?
And big problem, i tried to order the piston from here:
http://www.forgedpistonparts.com/vw-gol ... si-1-4ltr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And they ship to very few countries.
The price is perfect, but how the *** is i`m supposed to get them.
Blower you get the piston from them right ? Where you live?
I live in Bulgaria, but i have sister in England and also friends in Greece, and they did not ship to this locations ...

[moulin12]

The other big issue on the twinchargers fitted across the VAG range was the dry clutch burn-out. Pages and pages on this on the internet. Clutch was upgraded in 2013, so stick with a 13 plate and above.

[blower]

Few more question, how many km you working out(develop) the car with the new pistons ? And in what RPM ?
Also with what oil you drive?
And big problem, i tried to order the piston from here:
http://www.forgedpistonparts.com/vw-gol ... si-1-4ltr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And they ship to very few countries.
The price is perfect, but how the *** is i`m supposed to get them.
Blower you get the piston from them right ? Where you live?
I live in Bulgaria, but i have sister in England and also friends in Greece, and they did not ship to this locations ...

I've done about 10,000 miles (16,000km) since I rebuilt the engine - no issues at all
Oil wise I have been using Castrol edge 5w30 but have switched to Castrol edge 0w30 for improved oil performance during startup and for winter.

I got the pistons from that same place - I live in the UK and had no problem ordering them. Maybe drop them an email.
Even with shipping, import duty and VAT it was still a fair bit cheaper than ordering them directly from wossner in Germany - ironically since they would have been shipped form Germany to the US in the first place.

[blower]

The other big issue on the twinchargers fitted across the VAG range was the dry clutch burn-out. Pages and pages on this on the internet. Clutch was upgraded in 2013, so stick with a 13 plate and above.

DSG dry clutch was 'upgraded' in 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016.
I put it in quotes as I wouldn't use the word 'upgraded' - more just like a part number change with hardly any real changes.
The only real change came in 2012 with a harder clutch material which helped matters a bit

But having had a 3rd clutch pack in 2015, under extended warranty (if you include the factory one from 2010 as the first) - I wouldn't say they have fixed the issue.
This clutch pack has started juddering again in 2nd gear, after only 20k miles on it. Its mild atm but it will get worse.

[lordlosh]

I found the piston for 640 euro, they are genuine, still not buyed them, cause i starting to feel a little bit of juddering in 2nd gear on the DSG. The car is 90,000km, 2011 year model.
Right now im pissed hard. Not sure what to do, to put a lot of money in the car or just sell it and get something else, probably audi a4, 2.0tfsi. Is the 2.0 tfsi any better anyway?
I`m in f**** dilemma cause i like the car so much, it`s low km, also it`s almost with full equipment, great colour, the drive is so good.
And i just get TMG AIR COLD INTAKE with R8 Coils and Iridium IX ...
Blower mate, give me a advise, if i change the pistons, will this car be a f**** reliable, or i always has to be on sight that the engine could blow in any moment.
Also is there any indiciation before the pistons crack? How can i found out, before it`s been too late?
Not sure what to do and advce would be great.
Again i love the drive of the car, also good MPG, but now the DSG have some stress on 2nd gear and i have 1/1000km oil consumption, which is insane and not sure what to do.
Blower can you pls make a video of the juddering in second gear on the DSG, so i can be sure it`s the same thing on me.

[blower]

If you change the pistons the engine should be reliable - its most fatal weakness is the pistons, and those forged pistons from wosner will take a lot of punishment.
The only other issue that can affect this engine is the timing chain - but this is an issue that affects all TSI engines, In fact the 1.4 TSI is one of the more reliable ones as far as the tensioner issue goes, certainly more reliable than the 2.0 TSI. Anyway nearly all chain tensioner/chain failure issues on a 1.4tsi stem from manual gear cars being left in gear when parked, so I wouldn't worry about that.

With the pistons, increased oil consumption can be an indication that a piston is starting to go - how long has it been consuming that much oil?
There's no other signs before it goes, as when it does its just misfires and rough running - which by then the piston has cracked.
Having said that, you could do a compression test as if one of the cylinders is down a lot from another it could be a sign of the piston/rings failing.

Other causes of increased oil consumption are piston ring issues, leaking valve stem seals, or a turbo seal leaking oil into intake or exhaust (if it were exhaust you'd see it as blue smoke)
Although the above causes are pretty rare on the mk6 incarnation of the 1.4 TSI twincharger.

The DSG is an issue with the 2nd gear juddering - many people just live with it as if you have had a 2012 onwards clutch pack fitted then it tends to slowly get worse but then plateau, i.e reach a point where it doesn't seem to get any worse. Its intermittent and only seems to happen in 2nd gear when moving off from a slow speed. A mate of mine's started juddering 40,000 miles ago and its not got any worse and is intermittent. Pre-2012 clutch packs however seemed to break down far more and judder far more greatly, eventually juddering in other gears - an example of a real bad one can be seen here: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only solution to it seems to be the Kevlar clutches form TMG performance - although I have yet to confirm if people have put serious mileage on them without issue.

As for if you should keep it or sell it...hmm tough one since, like me, you have invested some money into it and actually like the car.
The 2.0 TSI is generally a more reliable engine - but early versions you have to watch what revision of the chain tensioner is installed - that's that engines biggest issue.
It has a few other issues but they not complete disasters like a piston cracking, and all those issues there are new parts which resolve them.
The dsg 6 speed on the 2.0 TSI however is a smoother gearbox without the juddering issues.

For me I have thought about selling, but its a project car where I have spent a good load of money but its become a hobby and I have learnt a lot as i've gone along so just don't see it as a money pit anymore, and 90% of what I have spent has just been upgrades, tinkering and replacing things that aint actually broke yet, incase they might break (like the bloody pistons!)

[lordlosh]

I change the Timing chain, so this problem is fixed. For the oil consumption the car was in service and they check the whole car and said, there is no leak anywhere. There is only a little loosening/gap in the turbo.
As far as a compression test, i`ve already done one and they say all it`s perfect. I also don`t have misfire.
And the oil consumption is from the very begining i get the car. The shit thing is you can`t catch it, until you buy the car and it`s too late .... So far arround 8,000km. But who knows when it`s start.
To be honest still can`t decide what to do.
If i decide to sell the car, what car in that range you can recommend, as well as what engine ? Automatic gear is a must.
I also read a loot of horror story for 2.0tfsi and it`s oil consumption.
Are Golf 6 GTI reliable, what year is recommended ? Seat Leon 2012+ 1.8tsi fr with the dsg?
Right now i feel like sh** to be honest.

[SciroccoPL]

, I can't get insured on the 2.0 TSI until I'm 25

Where do you live?!

[SciroccoPL]

, I can't get insured on the 2.0 TSI until I'm 25

Where do you live?!

[risingson]

This is all very interesting, as the engine in my TSI 160 was replaced in 2013 (cylinder 4 went) and I until now I was too scared to consider remapping it in case I tempted fate!

By the sounds of it, if the brand of piston was changed in Jan 2012 I will have the stronger ones in the new engine I have. I hadn't realised this until now (and frankly was just crossing my fingers that it wouldn't go wrong again!)

The fact I'm not experiencing anything like the misfires I used to get, and have never had the engine light come on - suggests it is running well several years on. But is there any way of telling exactly when my engine was built before I take the plunge?

With the plastic engine cover cover off, I've looked on the left hand side of the block (just under one of the hoses running on the left hand side). Below a VW logo there is some embossed writing saying SNL (or 1) Slovakia, followed by a line beginning 03C (the part code prefix for this engine), and two more lines.

Then below that there are 11 numbers followed by 'CE' stamped into the block in a "dot matrix" kind of way. The first six are 071112.
There's also a circular disc stamped on with the numbers 42 and 12 in each half.

Would it be a fair assumption that my engine was either built on 7/11/2012, or around the 42nd week of 2012 (which would be ~15/10/2012)? If so I imagine I would be pretty safe in thinking it's a stronger engine!

I was wondering if someone else with this engine could see what numbers are stamped on theirs to see if this is consistent?

Thanks very much in advance

risingson

[lordlosh]

blower, what size piston i should go 76.50 or 77 ?

[blower]

blower, what size piston i should go 76.50 or 77 ?

76.50 is the stock size,for normal blocks that have not been rebored.
77 is slightly larger for when you want to rebore the cylinders, due to cylinder wall damage from cracked pistons.

So if just replacing pistons, with no damage to cylinder, so you are not reboring, then use 76.50

[lordlosh]

Okay thanks. Is there something "special" in the this piston change, that service need to know ? Here in my country, there is not much TSI arround, i doubt they change piston on TSI.
The service i will go is a tuning performance service. I hope they don`t mess something.
And except the piston and all the stuff to them, should i change something else? Probably has to clean intake valves from carbon build up right?
I will probably push to 240-250 hp, after this, will go wiith TMG performance, for the begining with the coils/air intake/sparks and stage 1 software. Should i get reinforced gasket, bolts(APR maybe) or order stock(original) from VW ?
Also what you suggest me to modify to reach that hp ? Except, chip,intake/sparks/coils, what else should i go ?
Intercooler from Golf R or Audi S3 ? What is the part number ? And where should i search for one? I live in Europe, Bulgaria. But have sister in UK/London.
And this DSG clutches, will they fuc**** handle the torque or we should limit the Nm ?
Also you use standart brakes?
How many km you break-in with the new piston ? And probably did not go higher then 4k ??
And question about the interior, is there a possibility, to put TSI badge(special made) into steering wheel insert on normal VW stereing, not the GTD/GTI/R ?
This streering wheel. https://a.d-cd.net/1c5b392s-960.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks in advance again mate.

[risingson]

blower, you seem to be the 1.4TSI 160 owner 'in the know' - I don't suppose you would be able to help me with my query about the engine build date would you? Or should I have posted this as a new topic - sorry I only joined at the end of last year and this is my first attempt at posting so am out of practice! Cheers